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Pamela Slim is best known for her blog called Escape from Cubicle Nation where she helps corporate workers transition into entrepreneurs.
Pamela is also known as the consultant who turned her back on her former clients to encourage their staff to become entrepreneurs themselves! In her own words, “As soon as I started working for myself, I knew that something was RIGHT! Having my own business was totally liberating and intoxicating. I named my company Ganas since that was what I felt every day I went to work, and was how I wanted my clients to feel as a result of working with me. I even went through a phase of self-employment evangelism, encouraging everyone I knew, or didn’t know, to work for themselves………., my zeal for entrepreneurship and my love of working for myself has never waned.”
Pamela has kindly found time in her hectic schedule that involves being a mom, a blogger, a podcaster and a businesswoman, to complete an email exchange with me and answer some questions.
During your last two senior years at high/grammar school, were you already aspiring to go into the career you have now carved out for yourself? If yes – why? If no – why not?
During my last two years in high school, I was not aspiring to go into the career I have now. Having spent some earlier years “running with the wrong crowd,” I decided to spend my final year of high school as an exchange student in Neuchatel, Switzerland. This was a stark contrast to growing up in a pretty sheltered suburb north of San Francisco, California. In Switzerland, I met people from all over the world, immersed myself in learning French, and experienced my first glimpse of a global perspective.
When I returned home and started college, all I knew is that I wanted to continue my global education, and hopefully change the world in the process. I had no firm career direction, but was overflowing with youthful optimism and exuberance.
What did you begin to study at college and end up receiving a degree in? Explain why if it differed. Explain the rationale behind your final selection.
I studied International Service and Development at college, with an emphasis on non-formal adult education in Latin America. After spending 2 of my four years abroad (one in Mexico and one in Colombia), I realized that I was not quite cut out to be an “expatriate aid worker” or the like, and that I would rather incite positive change at home.
I went to such a small school that there weren’t a lot of options for degrees, and I was happy with what I got. So my intent starting out was realized, and it did help in the organizational development work I did inside companies later on.
For many years, I got to “marry” both worlds by working with kids from Central and South America in the San Francisco Bay Area through my martial art programs. My experience in their homelands (and my Spanish) really helped my work.
The older I get, I wonder about the angst we put ourselves through to find the “perfect” degree. It will change anyway, right? And unless you are going all the way on a career track like my brother who is a post-doctorate scientist, I say do what interests you.
What music genre do you like listening to most? Who or which band influenced your early musical preferences?
My musical tastes are very eclectic. I was influenced greatly at an early age by my next door neighbours, most of whom were musicians. The Dad was a jazz trumpet player and had jam sessions at the house with his band, playing Dixieland. There were seven kids in the family, and the oldest also played the piano - he ended up with The Sons of Champlin, which had moderate success in the 1970s. Another brother played the trumpet and ended up playing with Jefferson Starship.
Another son was not a musician himself, but was a great fan of funk. I learned to appreciate The Commodores, Marvin Gaye and Rick James when it was blared through the walls during his parties. The youngest daughter was always on the cutting edge, listening to punk rock before it was mainstream in the U.S. So they taught me a lot about music, and I liked it all.
I was turned on to Salsa music when I lived in Latin America and love it dearly. Especially when I am dancing to it. I have grown to really love and appreciate Native American music since being married to my husband who is Navajo and sings his beautiful traditional songs. But I have to say that over and above most music, Motown really gets me going.
Given a choice of vacation, where would you go to experience an ideal holiday? And what is the best bit about a vacation for you, the travel to or the arrival? Why?
At this very moment, I will be extremely cliché and say that I would love to vacation in Hawaii. I say this because:
-I am very, very tired and the soothing water, island air and pace of life sounds great
-I have a toddler son and long plane rides are out of the question for a few years
-Life in general is very good at home, and I am in “nest” mode, not wanting to venture too far away from home.
This is very different from earlier years of life where I was a great adventure traveller. I don’t view it as scaling back on dreams, just working on different ones! Places on my list for the future are Australia/New Zealand, Southern Africa (of course!), Thailand, and a “Roots” trip back to the home of my ancestors in Scotland, Ireland and Wales. The journey and the destination are always fun.
What legacy would you like to be remembered for?
I would like to be remembered for using my life to liberate others. I can’t explain it easily, but the notion of liberation is central to my purpose for being on earth.
I have gone through many, many turns and twists to liberate myself from a variety of unhealthy situations and beliefs; I have always passionately believed in freedom from oppression for all people, and I adore helping people liberate themselves from thoughts, environments, people and situations that make them feel small and insignificant.
I want my children to see me as one who always stepped up to a challenge and chose to participate and be creative. And I want to be remembered for feeling fear sometimes, but always choosing love.
Has your profession progressed in a way you previously envisaged it would?
My profession has progressed in ways I could not have dreamed of. I never really had a clear picture of what I wanted to “be” when I grew up, I just kept following my interests.
Some days I wake up and can’t believe that I have been supporting myself through self-employment for ten years, and that I choose the kind of creative work I do. Work has always been abundant, so I try not to worry about what is next, or how I will pay the bills.
Something always comes. In recent years, I have been challenging myself to “play bigger,” meaning step into more public forums to share ideas and contribute to the field of entrepreneurship.
How has blogging affected your life and career? When are you most creative? Morning or evening? Do you only blog at certain times of the day or night?
Blogging has added a wonderful and creative dimension to my life. As soon as I started doing it, I felt like I had come home. I took a life coaching class a couple of years back, and had to do some exercises about my favourite subjects in school. In each stage of my education, English was my favorite.
Go figure! But the profession of journalist or writer was never appealing to me. Blogging is a totally creative release for me. It doesn’t feel like “work,” yet it has had a profoundly positive impact on my ability to get known and get in front of the exact kinds of people I want to work with.
I generally like to write blog posts during the morning, and comment on blogs and do email in the evening. I blog whenever I can. In fact, I often have to force myself NOT to blog so that I get other critical projects done.
Has any former corporate boss you previously consulted to, commented to you directly or to the media on what you are now achieving as an Escape the Cubicle evangelist? If yes, what was said?. If no, what do you think they think of your career now?
That is a fascinating question, and the answer so far is no. I do wonder sometimes what some former clients might think! All in all, however, I have had a very good relationship with most clients, and many have become friends and subscribers to my ezine or blog. I have always tried to be open about my work and outside activities, sharing of course in appropriate ways depending on the situation. I am great friends with the partners of the consulting firm that I did a lot of work for the last couple of years, and they wholeheartedly support my new direction.
The “Open Letter” post was of course the most controversial, and I bet it would raise the eyebrows of some of the senior executives I worked with in years past. But I look forward to the dialogue if it comes up, and always stand by the work I did as a consultant. The thing about doing work in any environment is that you are constrained by the cultural norms, rules, regulations and customs. I could have been the radical outsider in my corporate consultant hat I guess, but that wasn’t really my style. I did speak as clearly and truthfully as I could. But I will sheepishly admit that I hoodwinked myself into helping create some of those PowerPoint fests that I deplore. And for that, I will most likely pay an extra penance.
The previous 6 months for you has been a period of growth professionally with some tough personal challenges thrown into the ring that might have proved to be too daunting to cope with for many. But you appeared to have taken the pressures of parenthood, your professional business life and the tragedy of your close friend Carlos’s death in your stride.
What advise can you give to people, especially those in their fledgling business who might encounter similar experiences as you have that might push them close to quitting?
These last six months have been pretty amazing, and have had some challenges interspersed with the joyous successes. But at no point in the process did I ever even consider giving up … the thought just doesn’t cross my mind.
This is because I have done some pretty deep head scratching to discover the exact kind of work that I want to be doing with the exact kind of people I want to be doing it with. And although this may sound a little far out, it truly feels “divinely inspired.” Meaning I really feel like I am doing work that I am meant to be doing. When difficulties arise and I get stressed or tired, I stop and think “what do I need to learn from this right now?”
I ask myself if there is something I need to pay attention to, or stop doing or start doing that will make the process of running and growing my business more fun. I choose to look at fear as a great educator. I encourage my readers and clients to do the same, and to not feel bad for being scared sometimes. The only thing that will sustain you in the rough times is an intense love and passion for what you are doing. So if you build your business on that foundation, you can’t go wrong.
Let’s look to the future, 5 years from now. What will you want your business to have achieved 5 years from today. Do you envisage operating out of your own building with staff on the payroll? Can you see yourself having to open up operational centres in other countries? Please provide us with some insight into your business plan and aspirations for the business.
That is a very timely question. This year has been a big experiment in building platform and getting connected with the people that I am interested in working with. In the ten years I have been in business, I have never had the aspiration to grow my company into a big outfit with lots of employees and facilities, since one of my greatest sources of joy is freedom and flexibility. Managing payroll and employee relations is not my favourite thing to do.
That said, I do foresee having lots of independent people chipping in to work on projects with me and support my “back office” functions. I would love to see at least 2 published books, an established retreat schedule in my new home town of Sedona, Arizona, a radio show, lots of media exposure and a suite of helpful programs and products to help people make a good transition from corporate employee to entrepreneur.
I also would like to work on some very creative and experimental programs that bring together the best of business, new media and academia to serve my people. In my twenties, I was the Executive Director of a non-profit arts group and I produced many very interesting cross-cultural collaborations in music and dance. I am very hungry to bring some of that experience into some really fun experiences that will wake up and energize my audience. I am really, really looking forward to these next five years!
Interview With Pamela Slim – Escape from Cubicle Nation
